National Geographic Music (National Geographic)

Ever since their 1997 debut, Thievery Corporation's Rob Garza and Eric Hilton have been charting their own course – breaking down the walls between musical genres, blurring the line between production team and live band, and crafting their signature "Outernational Sound" from a cocktail of dubby, retro-futurist electronica, a battery of globalized sounds and a deep bench of international collaborators.

Over the trajectory of four studio albums (and dozens of singles and remixes), the Washington, D.C.-based duo has worked with everyone from Perry Farrell and David Byrne to the Flaming Lips' Wayne Coyne and Brazilian chanteuse Bebel Gilberto.

Always independent-minded, they've also used their own ESL label as a launching pad for such like-minded international artists as Federico Aubele and Natalia Clavier. And earlier this year Garza and Hilton took this approach to the next level, "curating" The Outernationalists Tour – a traveling roadshow that brought together some of their favorite artists and past collaborators, including Gnarls Barkley, TV on the Radio, Brazilian star Seu Jorge, and Argentine singer/ songwriters Federico Aubele and Natalia Clavier.

In September, fresh off their tour, Thievery took time out to release Radio Retaliation, the duo's long-awaited fifth studio album. Featuring brand new tracks and a whole new roster of guests - including Seu Jorge, Anoushka Shankar, Nigerian afro-beat star Femi Kuti and the Godfather of D.C.'s go-go music, Chuck Brown – Radio Relatiation takes Thievery Corporation into a more political direction.

Nat Geo Music recently caught up with Garza (pictured, right) in New York City and found out more about the new album and why Thievery Corporation is so fired up.

Nat Geo Music: So the album is called Radio Retaliation - what are you retaliating against?

Rob Garza: Everyone who has ever wronged us. We have a list. [laughs]

No, seriously… I think it's just a statement against the state of popular media in general, which has really gone downhill over the last eight years. The mainstream media has really just fallen down on the job – and not just the newsmedia, but our whole media culture in general is in deep denial…

So you have no specific grudge against radio?

Oh definitely. I think that commercial radio has just gotten worse and worse. It was already pretty bad when I was a kid, but now it's not even listenable. It's old news that the same three corporations own most of the radio stations in every market. But the problem isn't getting any better. Formats have gotten narrower and most of what's really musically or culturally vibrant never makes it onto commercial radio. The most innovative music gets pushed to the margins and anything with an independent spirit or vision has to find …an alternate route to get out to an audience. And that's why internet radio is a great thing. What happened to radio is like a microcosm of what happened to our mainstream media in general…

So how does that come out on the record?

More subtly than it did just did now, I hope! [laughs] I'm not trying to come off as militant or anything. I do feel like you just have to speak up against what's happening in America right now. But I like to think we're still being smart and subtle about it. I think there's always been a political, socially aware subtext to what we do, but we don't go around making overt statements and beating people over the head. We're not writing overt "message songs" – we code the message into the music and let people unscramble them. Or not. We're not Rage Against the Machine.

Is that subtext part of what Thievery's concept of "Outernationalism" is all about?

I think so… I mean we've always had this independent, outsider perspective on things. We've always been very open-minded and aware of the big world out there. I guess that we've always had this unspoken multicultural agenda in our music – but that's because we let our ears pull us into different places. Brazil, Jamaica, Argentina, etc. Good music transcends nationality and ethnicity and all that other stuff… it speaks on a level that's not connected to any one place or idea or people… but it can also lead you back to those places and ideas and be a kind of gateway to open yourself up to them. It can be really subversive that way, you know?

Speaking of that, you have some pretty impressive international collaborators lined up on this record…

Yeah, that's the fun of being production duo – Eric and I can always bring in a third party to keep from getting sick of each other. But I do think that music is a pretty collaborative process in general, and bringing in fresh blood is a good way to keep things alive.

You've got Seu Jorge, Chuck Brown, Femi Kuti… how do you decide who you want to work with?

The process starts with the songs. First we rough out the song in the studio and get a feel for where we want to go, and then it's like 'You know who would be great for this? So-and-so.' And that's when we make the call. We have to pick up the instruments before we pick up the phone. One thing that was important to us, though, was to work with artists who had something to say. And we've been really lucky, too – we almost always get the artists we want to work with.

Was that the idea behind the Outernational Tour? To work with artists who had something to say?

Definitely. We wanted to put together a tour that connected up edgy people doing interesting things and mix those sounds together live to see what happened. We had different guests in each city, like a rotating cast, so that every show would be unique.

How did you hook up with Seu Jorge?

I first met him about three or four years ago at a club in Lisbon. We were kind of mutual fans and ended up having drinks and talking about music real late into the night. We reconnected again and invited him on the Outernational tour – he's so amazing. He did this old Jorge Ben song, "Ponca da Lanca," at the Hollywood Bowl that just made my hair stand on end!

How did you get him to do a song about Hare Krishnas?

It was actually his idea. Apparently at one point when he was coming he was homeless in Rio and was living in a Hare Krishna temple. They took him in and fed him and gave him a place to sleep. So I guess he just wanted to thank them, and that's how he came up with those lyrics.

Tell me about working with Chuck Brown. He's a true Washington D.C. legend – what was it like working with him?

Wow. Chuck is like true, old school D.C. music royalty, you know? He's the Godfather of Go-Go. And if you don't know what Go-Go is, ask somebody.

But Chuck is an amazing guy. We first met him when we played a show with him on The Richest Man In Babylon tour. We stole his horn section for a set, but he didn't mind. The thing about Chuck is that his music career didn't start till he was in his forties, so it's like he lived many lives. He told us stories about all the jobs he worked, about being a shoeshine boy in Washington back in the day. He's just a true, true old school gentleman.

What kind of impact does being from D.C. have on your music and your approach as independent artists?

I think that because we're not in New York or L.A. we've always been more independent-minded. D.C. has this incredible musical legacy. All these great artists from Marvin Gaye to Bad Brains to Fugazi to all the great Go-Go bands – they always did their own thing and a lot of them did it on their own terms. Like [the] Dischord [label] set the blueprint for how to be a successful indie label. And the Go-Go scene has always had it's own separate independent network from the rest of the music industry.

On the other hand, D.C. is a small, but very cosmopolitain place. People from all over the world live and work here, and decisions that get made here affect people around the world. So you become very aware of how things are connected. It's one thing to watch what's happening in Somalia on TV and think "that's a shame." It's another thing to have a Somali guy as your neighbor or your co-worker or just your cabdriver. It just opens up your perspective and reframes your whole way of perceiving the world outside of the U.S.

And, of course, we always get musicians from lots of different countries coming through. So that was always available to us, too.

One more thing - your label's offices are actually right near National Geographic's. We're your neighbors!

That's right... you guys have a great gift shop.

So any recommendations for good lunch spots?

[laughs] You're on your own man!